Broadband router unable to connect through ADSL modem
Hi,
P2P network with 2 PCs and ADSL internet connected through 4 port broadband router. The network has been in place and working smoothly since February this year. I installed and configured the network, it's a straightforward affair.
Suddenly, the broadband router is unable to connect to the ADSL account through the modem. No settings or changes were made prior to the problem arising. After working with it a bit, restoring to defaults and re-configuring, etc., I decided the router must have failed. When we hook a PC directly to the modem (via ethernet, same as the router) the modem logs in and we can surf just fine. So it looked like a router problem.
Well it wasn't the router. 2 brand new routers were also tried, same problem resulted. The router cannot connect. So we have determined that the PC is fine, it surfs when connected to the modem. The cables are fine, we have switched cables around to eliminate them as the cause. The ADSL modem is fine, it connects and surfs when the PC is hooked up, and the modem doles out DHCP settings when configured to do so. So it must be the router right? Well no because we have tried 3 different routers.
So, what the heck is the problem?!?! The modem is the only part that has not been switched out, but it works fine without the router. So why did this problem arise all of the sudden.
Has anyone seen a similar situation where an ADSL modem appeared to be working okay but had problems with a router? I am at a loss.
Thanks, Bill
P2P network with 2 PCs and ADSL internet connected through 4 port broadband router. The network has been in place and working smoothly since February this year. I installed and configured the network, it's a straightforward affair.
Suddenly, the broadband router is unable to connect to the ADSL account through the modem. No settings or changes were made prior to the problem arising. After working with it a bit, restoring to defaults and re-configuring, etc., I decided the router must have failed. When we hook a PC directly to the modem (via ethernet, same as the router) the modem logs in and we can surf just fine. So it looked like a router problem.
Well it wasn't the router. 2 brand new routers were also tried, same problem resulted. The router cannot connect. So we have determined that the PC is fine, it surfs when connected to the modem. The cables are fine, we have switched cables around to eliminate them as the cause. The ADSL modem is fine, it connects and surfs when the PC is hooked up, and the modem doles out DHCP settings when configured to do so. So it must be the router right? Well no because we have tried 3 different routers.
So, what the heck is the problem?!?! The modem is the only part that has not been switched out, but it works fine without the router. So why did this problem arise all of the sudden.
Has anyone seen a similar situation where an ADSL modem appeared to be working okay but had problems with a router? I am at a loss.
Thanks, Bill
ASKER
I WILL POST AN ADDITIONAL 1,000 POINTS FOR THE PERSON THAT PROVIDES THE SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM!!
The modem is provided by the ISP, but it is configured by the installer or user. The default settings in the modem are what is required for the BellSouth ADSL network. I worked a 3 month contract with BellSouth last year installing business ADSL routers, and I am familiar with the required settings.
The modem is a Westell SpeedWire. And since the original post, I have acquired another known working Westell Speedwire (identical to the original) and tried it out. Same result: surfs fine when 1 PC is hooked up via ethernet, no connection when any one of 2 brand new routers is hooked up.
Actually, I believe that the modem is indeed connecting, but that the router is not getting the message. But that is just a guess based on the fact that after the router failed to connect, I hooked up to the modem and it was already connected and I could surf without having to connect (once the PC had picked up the DHCP settings from the modem).
Which brings up another question: Originally, both the modem and the router had DHCP turned on, and this worked fine for 9 months. When I looked at it, I was unsure whether the modem should have DHCP turned on or off. Tried it both ways, same result.
Also, I contacted BellSouth about the issue to see if there might be a related known issue, or if anyone else in our area was having a similar problem. No on both counts.
I'm stumped
The modem is provided by the ISP, but it is configured by the installer or user. The default settings in the modem are what is required for the BellSouth ADSL network. I worked a 3 month contract with BellSouth last year installing business ADSL routers, and I am familiar with the required settings.
The modem is a Westell SpeedWire. And since the original post, I have acquired another known working Westell Speedwire (identical to the original) and tried it out. Same result: surfs fine when 1 PC is hooked up via ethernet, no connection when any one of 2 brand new routers is hooked up.
Actually, I believe that the modem is indeed connecting, but that the router is not getting the message. But that is just a guess based on the fact that after the router failed to connect, I hooked up to the modem and it was already connected and I could surf without having to connect (once the PC had picked up the DHCP settings from the modem).
Which brings up another question: Originally, both the modem and the router had DHCP turned on, and this worked fine for 9 months. When I looked at it, I was unsure whether the modem should have DHCP turned on or off. Tried it both ways, same result.
Also, I contacted BellSouth about the issue to see if there might be a related known issue, or if anyone else in our area was having a similar problem. No on both counts.
I'm stumped
is this PPOE?
If so have you tried cloning the mac of the working computer to the WAN port of the broadband router?
DHCP should be on unless you have a static IP from bell south.
If so have you tried cloning the mac of the working computer to the WAN port of the broadband router?
DHCP should be on unless you have a static IP from bell south.
ASKER
Affirmative on the PPPOE.
Efforts were made both with and without the PC MAC cloned to the router.
In our area, in my experience, it generally is not necessary to clone the MAC address of a NIC to the router for BellSouth ADSL. BellSouth does not care if DSL customers network. They will only support the modem and a single PC connection, however, unless the customer has purchased a router from BellSouth.
With Time Warner cable broadband, though, it sometimes is necessary to clone a NIC MAC to the router when the customer is not paying the extra $10/month for networking.
DHCP in the modem has been on for most of our efforts, since it worked that way for 9 months, and that is the default setting. I tried it a few times w/ DHCP turned off in the modem.
Efforts were made both with and without the PC MAC cloned to the router.
In our area, in my experience, it generally is not necessary to clone the MAC address of a NIC to the router for BellSouth ADSL. BellSouth does not care if DSL customers network. They will only support the modem and a single PC connection, however, unless the customer has purchased a router from BellSouth.
With Time Warner cable broadband, though, it sometimes is necessary to clone a NIC MAC to the router when the customer is not paying the extra $10/month for networking.
DHCP in the modem has been on for most of our efforts, since it worked that way for 9 months, and that is the default setting. I tried it a few times w/ DHCP turned off in the modem.
so i assume you've double checked the pppoe authentication credentials in the router setup...
Do any of these routers have logs?
If so do they show any dhcp handshaking?
a proper handshake looks something like:
Send Discover
Receive Offer from x.x.x.x
Send Request, Request IP = y.y.y.y
Receive Ack from x.x.x.x, Lease time =123456
do any of the routers have a ping facility?
If you're getting an address, can you fing the next hop from the router?
Do any of these routers have logs?
If so do they show any dhcp handshaking?
a proper handshake looks something like:
Send Discover
Receive Offer from x.x.x.x
Send Request, Request IP = y.y.y.y
Receive Ack from x.x.x.x, Lease time =123456
do any of the routers have a ping facility?
If you're getting an address, can you fing the next hop from the router?
ASKER
Oh yeah, login and password checked and re-checked.
Routers logs only include sites requested by clients. Except one is a Linksys 4 port. I didn't check what kind of logs it has.
When the router is hooked up, I can ping the router, but not the modem. I've never tried to ping the modem through a router before. Should we get a response from the modem? Externally, the modem is set by default to deny ping requests.
And of course unable, in this situation, to ping anything outside.
Routers logs only include sites requested by clients. Except one is a Linksys 4 port. I didn't check what kind of logs it has.
When the router is hooked up, I can ping the router, but not the modem. I've never tried to ping the modem through a router before. Should we get a response from the modem? Externally, the modem is set by default to deny ping requests.
And of course unable, in this situation, to ping anything outside.
If you do a traceroute out to say, linux.org with the machine that works, try to ping the hops along that route from the router...
You didn't mention what the router status shows, is the wan port getting an address?
You didn't mention what the router status shows, is the wan port getting an address?
ASKER
I don't think we're on the same page:
Neither PC will surf if a router is hooked up. Either PC will surf if connected directly to the modem. When the router is hooked up, it will not connect, no matter what PC I am viewing the router interface from.
As I said earlier, I think the modem is actually connecting, but the router is not getting the message that a connection has been established at the modem.
When a router is in the loop, the modem cannot be pinged, nor can any traceroute be carried out, because we can't see past the router. This includes any of the 3 routers we have tried.
Also, the routers and both the modems have the latest available firmware installed.
Could a virus be involved here? I don't think so. The primary PC we have been testing from has a current VDF and is virus free, as well as adware free. Is there a virus that would cause this type of problem? Could a virus infect the router or modem?
Neither PC will surf if a router is hooked up. Either PC will surf if connected directly to the modem. When the router is hooked up, it will not connect, no matter what PC I am viewing the router interface from.
As I said earlier, I think the modem is actually connecting, but the router is not getting the message that a connection has been established at the modem.
When a router is in the loop, the modem cannot be pinged, nor can any traceroute be carried out, because we can't see past the router. This includes any of the 3 routers we have tried.
Also, the routers and both the modems have the latest available firmware installed.
Could a virus be involved here? I don't think so. The primary PC we have been testing from has a current VDF and is virus free, as well as adware free. Is there a virus that would cause this type of problem? Could a virus infect the router or modem?
I don't think it's a virus.
I haven't heard of anything that can infect a cablemodem or cable router, and i read cert and sans, etc. every morning :)
What I thought I said was to do a traceroute somewhere with the PC and no router and to use the ping facility on the router to ping each point along that route after reconnecting it.
3rd time> You didn't mention what the router status shows, is the wan port getting an address?
I haven't heard of anything that can infect a cablemodem or cable router, and i read cert and sans, etc. every morning :)
What I thought I said was to do a traceroute somewhere with the PC and no router and to use the ping facility on the router to ping each point along that route after reconnecting it.
3rd time> You didn't mention what the router status shows, is the wan port getting an address?
ASKER
Sorry, misunderstood what you were saying.
When a router is connected, the WAN status has no addresses, all zeros, same as if there was no modem hooked up.
I haven't tried traceroute specifically, but I have tried to ping several of the BellSouth DNS servers through the router and cannot get any response from anything. The only thing that can be pinged is the router itself, or the other PC on the LAN. The WAN is completely unavailable.
When a router is connected, the WAN status has no addresses, all zeros, same as if there was no modem hooked up.
I haven't tried traceroute specifically, but I have tried to ping several of the BellSouth DNS servers through the router and cannot get any response from anything. The only thing that can be pinged is the router itself, or the other PC on the LAN. The WAN is completely unavailable.
Also make sure that it is connecting. Go into the router controll panel and make sure that it is connected to the PPPoE service.
If you're not getting a dhcp address on the router, you're not going anywhere.
If that cable is good and the proper type, and the authentication information you entered in the router's pppoe section is correct, and it's set for bridged ethernet, the router should get a DHCP address from the ADSL modem, and you'd be off to the races.
Westell's support site is pretty sparse, though there are some reports that the westell 1.06.15 caused some people problems on the 2100 if that's what you're running, that were solved by backing off the firmware. Could be a firmware upgrade was initiated by BS.
Beyond that I'd go to Linksys (though their knowledge base has been down for a while) or give Westell shout at global_support@westell.com
If that cable is good and the proper type, and the authentication information you entered in the router's pppoe section is correct, and it's set for bridged ethernet, the router should get a DHCP address from the ADSL modem, and you'd be off to the races.
Westell's support site is pretty sparse, though there are some reports that the westell 1.06.15 caused some people problems on the 2100 if that's what you're running, that were solved by backing off the firmware. Could be a firmware upgrade was initiated by BS.
Beyond that I'd go to Linksys (though their knowledge base has been down for a while) or give Westell shout at global_support@westell.com
You could, if you want to go into more detail, hook up a hub between the modem and the router and then sniff whaterver negotiations are taking place. Then replace router with a PC and see if there's a difference (it should be, since PC can connect...). One would expect the PC doing a DHCP request and getting an answer and the same should be happening with the router. At least the rejection should be seen in the captured traffic, perhaps helping further investigations.
Also, for pure troubleshooting purposes, you could set up a PC as router using freesco (www.freesco.org). I think there are some logging capabilities in that system, and it will give on-screen messages on start-up so you might see at which point it fails.
/RID
Also, for pure troubleshooting purposes, you could set up a PC as router using freesco (www.freesco.org). I think there are some logging capabilities in that system, and it will give on-screen messages on start-up so you might see at which point it fails.
/RID
When you plug in one of the PCs does it get a DHCP address from the modem - if so set this manually on the router and try a tracert to www.yahoo.com. Remember to copy the address, subnet and default gateway from the working PC.
ASKER
IGneon10
The router is using PPPoE.
chicagoan
The router IP address is either the default or set by the user in the interface. The gateway address is being picked up from the modem via DHCP.
The firmware was 1.06.033 when this problem arose. I upgraded it to 1.06.15 in an effort to resolve the issue. Either way, though, both versions suffered the same problem.
cmrayer
I can try that. The PC address from the modem is different (same range) than the one given out by the routers.
rid
If it comes to that, I can pursue your suggested course. I just need to get this fixed, spent too much time already. Plan to purchase a BestData DSL modem/Router combo and hook it up to see what it does.
Normally I like to figure out exactly what is causing a problem to occur, for learning purposes. In this case I have stopped caring.
The router is using PPPoE.
chicagoan
The router IP address is either the default or set by the user in the interface. The gateway address is being picked up from the modem via DHCP.
The firmware was 1.06.033 when this problem arose. I upgraded it to 1.06.15 in an effort to resolve the issue. Either way, though, both versions suffered the same problem.
cmrayer
I can try that. The PC address from the modem is different (same range) than the one given out by the routers.
rid
If it comes to that, I can pursue your suggested course. I just need to get this fixed, spent too much time already. Plan to purchase a BestData DSL modem/Router combo and hook it up to see what it does.
Normally I like to figure out exactly what is causing a problem to occur, for learning purposes. In this case I have stopped caring.
First of all: when the modem is active and NATing, the private side of the modem should be considered a pure TCP/IP connection point, so I don't see what PPPoE has do do with anything on this side ?
Secondly: If the mode is fine and pc's are working when connected directly against it, have you tried setting a fixed IP on the router public (WAN) side ? (remember to stop the DHCP on the modem, or change the scope so that the IP you give the router is not included, - some modems won't route for IP's within their DHCP scope if they haven't got an entry for the MAC)
Sven
Secondly: If the mode is fine and pc's are working when connected directly against it, have you tried setting a fixed IP on the router public (WAN) side ? (remember to stop the DHCP on the modem, or change the scope so that the IP you give the router is not included, - some modems won't route for IP's within their DHCP scope if they haven't got an entry for the MAC)
Sven
ASKER
svenkarlsen,
Technically, the modem may or may not be using NAT between the public and single private address that are in use for surfing, but I do know for certain that PPPoE is the connection method to be used by an xDSL router for connecting to BellSouth ADSL, per BellSouth and my experience. The other available connection methods will not function w/ BellSouth ADSL.
As for assigning the public IP address, that can only be done when the customer has a static account. The modem is configured with a static specific login and the static address which is provided by BellSouth. When the customer logs in, the account setup at the DSLAM directs the connection to either a dynamic or static login server.
The DHCP settings on the modem are for private address ranges, and would not interfere with the public address in any event.
Technically, the modem may or may not be using NAT between the public and single private address that are in use for surfing, but I do know for certain that PPPoE is the connection method to be used by an xDSL router for connecting to BellSouth ADSL, per BellSouth and my experience. The other available connection methods will not function w/ BellSouth ADSL.
As for assigning the public IP address, that can only be done when the customer has a static account. The modem is configured with a static specific login and the static address which is provided by BellSouth. When the customer logs in, the account setup at the DSLAM directs the connection to either a dynamic or static login server.
The DHCP settings on the modem are for private address ranges, and would not interfere with the public address in any event.
Bill,
I do not doubt that PPPoE is required for connecting to your ISP. I'm just saying that your modem makes the PPPoE connection, and your router does not connect to your ISP: it connects to the modem. Consequently, your router shall not use PPPoE.
Your router must be configured as a plain TCP/IP router, either using DHCP or fixed IP on it's public/WAN side which connects to the modem. Regardless of choice, the router must have an IP on same subnet as the modems private/LAN side.
Make sure that the DHCP server in the router is configured to another subnet than the modem's DHCP server, if you use it.
Finally make sure that your router use NAT.
If you use fixed NAT/PAT, you must setup static routes in both modem and router.
Sven
I do not doubt that PPPoE is required for connecting to your ISP. I'm just saying that your modem makes the PPPoE connection, and your router does not connect to your ISP: it connects to the modem. Consequently, your router shall not use PPPoE.
Your router must be configured as a plain TCP/IP router, either using DHCP or fixed IP on it's public/WAN side which connects to the modem. Regardless of choice, the router must have an IP on same subnet as the modems private/LAN side.
Make sure that the DHCP server in the router is configured to another subnet than the modem's DHCP server, if you use it.
Finally make sure that your router use NAT.
If you use fixed NAT/PAT, you must setup static routes in both modem and router.
Sven
Just a comment here: I am using an Alcatel modem for ADSL and a freesco router. The router wants to know about connection type, which is PPPoE in this case. It may be something with the modem type or whatever, but obviously some routers care about the link properties...
/RID
/RID
>I'm just saying that your modem makes the PPPoE connection, and your router does not connect to your ISP:
>it connects to the modem
pppoe generally requires authentication, unlike a cable modem which relies on the mac address and network segment to assure the provider of identity. this is accomplished through the use of software on the pc that supplies the authentication credentials. broadband routers have a feature that supplies the credentials to the ISP as the pc client can't communicate at that point.
Apparently, bell south has converted a number of their segments to BBG :
To: "BellSouth FastAccess DSL Customer"
Subject: Important message regarding your BellSouth login ID!
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:32:56 -0000
Dear BellSouth(R) FastAccess(R) DSL Service Customer,
As part of BellSouth's commitment to bring you new capabilities, we
want to make you aware of upcoming network architecture enhancements
scheduled for the week of September 29, 2003.
BellSouth is transitioning its existing broadband network to a higher
capacity network so that new features and functionality can be provided
to our customers.
BellSouth plans to transition you to the new architecture during the
period indicated above between the hours of 10pm and 6am. It will take
approximately 1-2 minutes to make the transition. Therefore, if you
are online during this time you will be disconnected and you will need
to reconnect a few minutes later.
The new architecture will require you to logon to the BellSouth network
with an extension after your logon username (see instructions below).
For example, if your logon username is "johndoe", then you should logon
as johndoe@bellsouth.net (@bellsouth.net is the extension). After the
addition of the extension to your logon name, your service should
operate as before.
Instructions:
For Ethernet modem users (users of NTS Enternet 300 Software)
Step 1: Locate Enternet 300 on your desktop and double-click the icon
to start the software.
Step 2: Once opened, locate and right-click on the user profile
marked, "FastAccess DSL" and select "Properties" from the menu of
choices.
Step 3: When the new window opens, click in the box with your current
username and add the extension "@bellsouth.net" after your username
(without the quotation marks). Make sure the box marked "Save Password"
is checked, and then click on the "OK" button.
Other modem users:
Step 1: Right-click on the "Internet Explorer" icon on your desktop,
and select the "Properties" menu option.
Step 2: Find the tab marked "Connections" and click on it.
Step 3: Locate the entry marked "FastAccess DSL" in the Dial-up and
Virtual Private Network settings box and select the Settings button.
Step 4: Click in the box with your current username and add the
extension "@bellsouth.net" after your username (without the quotation
marks), and then press the "OK" button.
If you have another type of modem/router or need help regarding this
network enhancement, please visit our
support website: »home.bellsouth.net/dslnet
YOU CAN ADD THE @BELLSOUTH.NET EXTENSION TO YOUR LOGON USERNAME AT ANY
TIME PRIOR TO THE SCHEDULED TRANSITION DATE WITHOUT IMPACTING YOUR
EXISTING SERVICE.
Please complete these changes as soon as possible to avoid login
difficulties.
Thank you for using BellSouth FastAccess DSL!
http://www.broadbandreports.com/faq/6405
Have you done this? Did you get that email?
>it connects to the modem
pppoe generally requires authentication, unlike a cable modem which relies on the mac address and network segment to assure the provider of identity. this is accomplished through the use of software on the pc that supplies the authentication credentials. broadband routers have a feature that supplies the credentials to the ISP as the pc client can't communicate at that point.
Apparently, bell south has converted a number of their segments to BBG :
To: "BellSouth FastAccess DSL Customer"
Subject: Important message regarding your BellSouth login ID!
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:32:56 -0000
Dear BellSouth(R) FastAccess(R) DSL Service Customer,
As part of BellSouth's commitment to bring you new capabilities, we
want to make you aware of upcoming network architecture enhancements
scheduled for the week of September 29, 2003.
BellSouth is transitioning its existing broadband network to a higher
capacity network so that new features and functionality can be provided
to our customers.
BellSouth plans to transition you to the new architecture during the
period indicated above between the hours of 10pm and 6am. It will take
approximately 1-2 minutes to make the transition. Therefore, if you
are online during this time you will be disconnected and you will need
to reconnect a few minutes later.
The new architecture will require you to logon to the BellSouth network
with an extension after your logon username (see instructions below).
For example, if your logon username is "johndoe", then you should logon
as johndoe@bellsouth.net (@bellsouth.net is the extension). After the
addition of the extension to your logon name, your service should
operate as before.
Instructions:
For Ethernet modem users (users of NTS Enternet 300 Software)
Step 1: Locate Enternet 300 on your desktop and double-click the icon
to start the software.
Step 2: Once opened, locate and right-click on the user profile
marked, "FastAccess DSL" and select "Properties" from the menu of
choices.
Step 3: When the new window opens, click in the box with your current
username and add the extension "@bellsouth.net" after your username
(without the quotation marks). Make sure the box marked "Save Password"
is checked, and then click on the "OK" button.
Other modem users:
Step 1: Right-click on the "Internet Explorer" icon on your desktop,
and select the "Properties" menu option.
Step 2: Find the tab marked "Connections" and click on it.
Step 3: Locate the entry marked "FastAccess DSL" in the Dial-up and
Virtual Private Network settings box and select the Settings button.
Step 4: Click in the box with your current username and add the
extension "@bellsouth.net" after your username (without the quotation
marks), and then press the "OK" button.
If you have another type of modem/router or need help regarding this
network enhancement, please visit our
support website: »home.bellsouth.net/dslnet
YOU CAN ADD THE @BELLSOUTH.NET EXTENSION TO YOUR LOGON USERNAME AT ANY
TIME PRIOR TO THE SCHEDULED TRANSITION DATE WITHOUT IMPACTING YOUR
EXISTING SERVICE.
Please complete these changes as soon as possible to avoid login
difficulties.
Thank you for using BellSouth FastAccess DSL!
http://www.broadbandreports.com/faq/6405
Have you done this? Did you get that email?
ASKER
svenkarlsen,
It is a fact that both the ADSL modem and the broadband router must be set to use PPPoE connection type.
The private Local Area Network begins at the ADSL modem. The router has a private address scheme in both directions: to the PC s on the LAN that are connected to it, and in the other direction to the modem. The router displays WAN status info, but this info is simply obtained from the modem. And yes the router does require login info for the ADSL account, but again this info is simply passed to the modem when connecting. The actual WAN/LAN divide is at the modem. It is the modem that has a public address assigned to it on the WAN side, and a private address on the LAN side. The router itself has a private address and that's it. The WAN address it displays under WAN status is actually assigned to the modem. The router looks for the modem's private IP address when communicating with it.
These details are useful but we are digressing from the main problem. I have set up many of this very modem and others, both with and without routers connected, for BellSouth business customers and my own consumer and business customers. I have setup many ADSL modem/router combos as well. I have performed these setups in a wide variety of environments with various network hardware involved. I am familiar with the configuration requirements. This is not rocket science.
THE PROBLEM is that the configuration worked for 9 months and quit. This particular customer does not have the knowledge to even surf to the router to change the configuration if they wanted to. I am confident nothing changed with the configuration to initiate the problem. Even if it did, I have re-set it correctly numerous times since. The configuration is correct, the account is verified active and working, all hardware has been switched out with new or known working hardware, all cables have been tested and replaced, virus activity has been eliminated as a cause, adware has been eliminated as a cause, and yet the setup will not function, as described in the original post.
And I am unable to determine to cause, or even find anyone who has experienced such a problem outside of failed hardware or bad account info or status.
I may lose a good customer. Though the customer is a residential LAN, her husband has 2 businesses for which I have installed and administer networks. And he is preparing to construct a new building which will need a network. If I can't fix this I will just have to pass this off to a competitor and lose a good business customer in the process.
I have always known that my real talent is not with technical info, it is in finding solutions to problems. After all, the work I am doing, thousands of others in my area alone are also doing. I have never encountered a problem that after some amount of searching I could not find someone somewhere that would say, "Oh yeah, I experienced something like that. Try this." This problem though is proving me wrong.
It is a fact that both the ADSL modem and the broadband router must be set to use PPPoE connection type.
The private Local Area Network begins at the ADSL modem. The router has a private address scheme in both directions: to the PC s on the LAN that are connected to it, and in the other direction to the modem. The router displays WAN status info, but this info is simply obtained from the modem. And yes the router does require login info for the ADSL account, but again this info is simply passed to the modem when connecting. The actual WAN/LAN divide is at the modem. It is the modem that has a public address assigned to it on the WAN side, and a private address on the LAN side. The router itself has a private address and that's it. The WAN address it displays under WAN status is actually assigned to the modem. The router looks for the modem's private IP address when communicating with it.
These details are useful but we are digressing from the main problem. I have set up many of this very modem and others, both with and without routers connected, for BellSouth business customers and my own consumer and business customers. I have setup many ADSL modem/router combos as well. I have performed these setups in a wide variety of environments with various network hardware involved. I am familiar with the configuration requirements. This is not rocket science.
THE PROBLEM is that the configuration worked for 9 months and quit. This particular customer does not have the knowledge to even surf to the router to change the configuration if they wanted to. I am confident nothing changed with the configuration to initiate the problem. Even if it did, I have re-set it correctly numerous times since. The configuration is correct, the account is verified active and working, all hardware has been switched out with new or known working hardware, all cables have been tested and replaced, virus activity has been eliminated as a cause, adware has been eliminated as a cause, and yet the setup will not function, as described in the original post.
And I am unable to determine to cause, or even find anyone who has experienced such a problem outside of failed hardware or bad account info or status.
I may lose a good customer. Though the customer is a residential LAN, her husband has 2 businesses for which I have installed and administer networks. And he is preparing to construct a new building which will need a network. If I can't fix this I will just have to pass this off to a competitor and lose a good business customer in the process.
I have always known that my real talent is not with technical info, it is in finding solutions to problems. After all, the work I am doing, thousands of others in my area alone are also doing. I have never encountered a problem that after some amount of searching I could not find someone somewhere that would say, "Oh yeah, I experienced something like that. Try this." This problem though is proving me wrong.
ASKER
chicagoan,
Thanks, but all my customers are already logging in with the domain included. I knew that was coming a year ago from my brief contract with BellSouth.
Thanks, but all my customers are already logging in with the domain included. I knew that was coming a year ago from my brief contract with BellSouth.
Did you read my last post?
Apparently the BBG conversion has hit a large number of people with this problem.
The netgear MR814 v2 reportedly works and Netgear is working on updated firmware for some of it's other products.
Apparently the BBG conversion has hit a large number of people with this problem.
The netgear MR814 v2 reportedly works and Netgear is working on updated firmware for some of it's other products.
ASKER
Besides, we early on verified that the account itself was active and the login info was correct when we were able to surf without the router attached.
ASKER CERTIFIED SOLUTION
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it's not only the account info, apparently the change broad A LOT of broadband router PPOE logins... the the above threads for the tail of woe
ASKER
I did not see anything in your post about the BBG conversion causing problems with some routers. Well that seems like the most likely culprit at his point. Jeez, I bet I won't be able to find a compatible broadband router at this point. I better get on it.
But hey, I have another customer using the same Linksys I tried here, and they have no problem. But they are using a different ADSL modem and DSLAM, so it is a different situation.
I'll pursue it.
Thanks chicagoan,
Bill
But hey, I have another customer using the same Linksys I tried here, and they have no problem. But they are using a different ADSL modem and DSLAM, so it is a different situation.
I'll pursue it.
Thanks chicagoan,
Bill
I'm sorry if I take up your time with non-helpful comments, but I'm not quite convinced about this Modem - Router IP system. I realize that different ISP's may have different systems, but in my ADSL environment, the router (or, as could be the case, the PC) connected to the modem will receive an IP (a public one) from the ISP, via the modem. If the modem itself has an IP, it is hidden and of no consequence to other equipment involved. A router connected to this modem would have to use DHCP for its WAN side IP, and access method would be PPPoE.
/RID
/RID
sorry i forgot the links to the dsl forum with the letter which established the time frame... it's quite a buzz there
sounds like it fits the bill
sounds like it fits the bill
ASKER
Yeah, Thanks chicagoan, it looks like a fit.
I am going to research what may and may not work and see what I can do today. Give me 'til this afternoon. If I can't setup something compatible today, I will go ahead and award you the promised points because this is definitely what's going on here. And I am leaving for the coast today remedy or not.
Thank God, what a RELIEF!! Ya'll excuse me now, I think I'm going to cry.
I am going to research what may and may not work and see what I can do today. Give me 'til this afternoon. If I can't setup something compatible today, I will go ahead and award you the promised points because this is definitely what's going on here. And I am leaving for the coast today remedy or not.
Thank God, what a RELIEF!! Ya'll excuse me now, I think I'm going to cry.
at least you have a plausible explanation... and a potential fix
get some sun!
get some sun!
Thanks Bill,
I learned something new today (though I'd never accept an ADSL of that setup ;-)
Regards,
Sven
I learned something new today (though I'd never accept an ADSL of that setup ;-)
Regards,
Sven
ASKER
sven,
I appreciate your help. The technical details, I'm not so good at. I do know what it takes to get it set up correctly and working for the service we have here. Where technically the divide between the WAN and LAN actually is I don't know. It looks to me to be in the modem by the fact that the modem has both a WAN and LAN address, and it seem that the router is simply relaying the WAN status info from the modem. If I look at the modem, I get the same WAN status info I get at the router. Since the modem is farthest upstream toward the DSLAM, it seems that's where the LAN side of things would have to begin. Additionally, the router is the only device on the LAN that actually has the private address of the modem. So doesn't that also indicate that the router is communicating with the modem over the private network?
Whatever, I get paid to set it up and get it working properly, not to explain the technical details of how it works and what's happening where. Judging by the fact that I can make a living at it and support my family, and by the fact that a lot of people and businesses are willing to continue to pay me what I consider a lot of money to take care of there network needs, I must do okay at it.
Later,
Bill
I appreciate your help. The technical details, I'm not so good at. I do know what it takes to get it set up correctly and working for the service we have here. Where technically the divide between the WAN and LAN actually is I don't know. It looks to me to be in the modem by the fact that the modem has both a WAN and LAN address, and it seem that the router is simply relaying the WAN status info from the modem. If I look at the modem, I get the same WAN status info I get at the router. Since the modem is farthest upstream toward the DSLAM, it seems that's where the LAN side of things would have to begin. Additionally, the router is the only device on the LAN that actually has the private address of the modem. So doesn't that also indicate that the router is communicating with the modem over the private network?
Whatever, I get paid to set it up and get it working properly, not to explain the technical details of how it works and what's happening where. Judging by the fact that I can make a living at it and support my family, and by the fact that a lot of people and businesses are willing to continue to pay me what I consider a lot of money to take care of there network needs, I must do okay at it.
Later,
Bill
Bill,
considering the info you have supplied, I would suggest you investigated the possibilities for setting up your router as bridge instead of router, - that would keep the same IP subnet on both sides of the router/bridge.
I think I've lost the track here: why was it you want to install a router instead of just putting a switch on the modem?
Sven
considering the info you have supplied, I would suggest you investigated the possibilities for setting up your router as bridge instead of router, - that would keep the same IP subnet on both sides of the router/bridge.
I think I've lost the track here: why was it you want to install a router instead of just putting a switch on the modem?
Sven
Why not change the subnet that the modem gives out so that it is different to the one the router gives out (So it can router properly)
ASKER
chicagoan,
See my posts under this TA for additional points.
I'm on my way to the beach. If I don't get your comments today, I'll get them when I'm back next Monday.
Have a good turkey day, and many thanks.
Bill
See my posts under this TA for additional points.
I'm on my way to the beach. If I don't get your comments today, I'll get them when I'm back next Monday.
Have a good turkey day, and many thanks.
Bill
May I (in all modesty) quote my first reply:
> Bill,
> my guess is that your modem is ISP provided !?
> This means that it may have been reconfigured remotely, thus changing the access mode.
Kind regards,
Sven
> Bill,
> my guess is that your modem is ISP provided !?
> This means that it may have been reconfigured remotely, thus changing the access mode.
Kind regards,
Sven
ASKER
Hi sven,
Is the point that the modem may have been upgraded, and the problem resulted? The modem was not upgraded by Bellsouth. When the problem arose, it was still running firmware one or two versions old. It was upgraded in an effort to remedy the problem early in the process.
As mentioned somewhere in this thread, two different Westell Wirespeed modems were used, both having been upgraded to the latest firmware (manually, by me).
BellSouth may or may not perform remote upgrades of modems they supply, but in this case that had not occurred.
The upgrade that caused this problem for my customer and many others took place on their network, at the Central Office.
Being uncertain of the intent of your post, I don't know if I have addressed your point or not.
Thanks, Bill
Is the point that the modem may have been upgraded, and the problem resulted? The modem was not upgraded by Bellsouth. When the problem arose, it was still running firmware one or two versions old. It was upgraded in an effort to remedy the problem early in the process.
As mentioned somewhere in this thread, two different Westell Wirespeed modems were used, both having been upgraded to the latest firmware (manually, by me).
BellSouth may or may not perform remote upgrades of modems they supply, but in this case that had not occurred.
The upgrade that caused this problem for my customer and many others took place on their network, at the Central Office.
Being uncertain of the intent of your post, I don't know if I have addressed your point or not.
Thanks, Bill
ASKER
chicagoan,
Please see post for additional points under this TA:
http://oldlook.experts-exchange.com/questions/20812124/Points-for-chicagoan.html
http://oldlook.experts-exchange.com/questions/20812122/Points-for-chicagoan.html
Please see post for additional points under this TA:
http://oldlook.experts-exchange.com/questions/20812124/Points-for-chicagoan.html
http://oldlook.experts-exchange.com/questions/20812122/Points-for-chicagoan.html
I think there's a point limit per question ....
you're up and others can find the source of the problem here :)
you're up and others can find the source of the problem here :)
ASKER
Well, I don't know about a point limit. I've posted additional points in the past with no problem. I promised 1,000 additional points and I want to deliver. If you care to post a comment at the links in my previous post I will accept them and award points.
The previous points I posted prior to my vacation were deleted by admin because I didn't include a link to this question in them. Sorry about that.
Bill
The previous points I posted prior to my vacation were deleted by admin because I didn't include a link to this question in them. Sorry about that.
Bill
my guess is that your modem is ISP provided !?
This means that it may have been reconfigured remotely, thus changing the access mode.
Please specify:
Router brand and model ?
Public side config of router:
DHCP or fixed ?
if fixed, - IP addr ?
Regards,
Sven